The listings now show November 13 as the release date for Rise of the Tomb Raider and September 18 for Forza 6. The Tomb Raider date seems to be right around what we were anticipating, but Forza looks like it will be arriving earlier than the mad rush of November releases.

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The bump from holiday to September for Forza 6 may mean that the game’s hype will have died down a bit come Christmas shopping season, but it also means that the racing-sim will have two full months of shelf time that it doesn’t have to compete with the Tomb Raiders, Halos, and other best-sellers of the upcoming holiday season.

Assuming the bulk of November releases don’t get delayed like they did last year, Rise of the Tomb Raider will be up against some major competition, but Lara Croft’s adventure should have plenty of hype to carry it into the holiday. Some financial analysts called the previous Tomb Raider a failure in comparison to its budget and sales of other AAA titles, but the game was the best-selling title in the franchise’s long history and received enough positive reviews to leave plenty of fans waiting for a sequel.

After the last year, it’s hard to take release dates seriously this far in advance, whether they are officially released by the publishers, or not. We would like to be playing both of these games come fall 2015, but we’re not getting our hopes up until we are a few months closer and still haven’t heard word of any delays.

Rise of the Tomb Raider releases November 13 as a timed exclusive for Xbox 360 and Xbox One.

Forza Motorsport 6 releases September 18 exclusively on Xbox One.